In this historic interview
to Caravan, Sheikh Abdullah speaks out how Delhi hired Kanranjia of Blitz and
Ganjoo of Statesman to malign him as a secessionist and Islamist
Kashmir Ink reproduces an old interview with Sheikh Mohammad
Abdullah published in the October 1980 issue of CARAVAN. The interview done by
the publication’s Special Correspondent was headlined ‘The Sheikh’s life has
been swinging between two extremes: from power to prison and back to power:
Will he fall out of grace with Mrs Gandhi again?’
The place was Srinagar, and time 9.30 in the
morning on 8th August 1980. The Personal Secretary of Sheikh Abdullah took me
to the Chief-Minister’s residence. I saw the Sheikh walking out of his bedroom
and advancing towards the lawn. A servant brought him a rose-bud. He took it
and pinned it in his buttonhole.
I was reminded of Jawaharlal Nehru. Sheikh Abdullah
smiled—again like Nehru—and offered me a chair.
Before I could open my battery of questions, I was
reminded of what the Director of Information of Jammu and Kashmir, Mr Bakshi
Ghulam Ali, had told me. He had asked me not to raise any controversial issue
in my meeting with Mr Abdullah.
A strange request it was. How was this possible?
How can you keep away from controversies while talking to one of the most
controversial persons in the country?
Many controversial issues came to the fore during
this meeting with the Sheikh. Yet one could not go too far with delicate
issues—the censor was already imposed by the Director of Information.
For instance one could not ask questions like: Has
the demand for plebiscite in Kashmir come to an end? Wouldn’t you like to take
back the part of your speech on Martyrs’ Day which has created so much of
uproar? Is it true that many Pakistani nationals are staying illegally in
Kashmir? How come your relations with the late Mr Nehru suddenly got strained?
Don’t you feel that because of religious orthodoxy the Muslims still remain
backward, and that religion has been exploiting us.
However, he talked for one hour and 45 minutes
instead of the promised 20 minutes.
Question: You are the beloved leader of the
masses. Doesn’t your position create a kind of wall between you and the people?
Don’t you feel that it would’ve been better for you to have stayed away from
power like Gandhi and Jayaprakash Narain?
Sheikh Abdullah:
Yes, I should have kept away from politics of power. But there is nobody in
Kashmir, yet, who can control this State riddled with problems. Our State needs
somebody who has a place in people’s heart; whose word carries weight with
them; who is their sincere well-wisher. The new generation lacks such people.
When in 1975 the situation in Kashmir became quite delicate, I was invited to
form the Government. I never desired to become the Chief Minister. In fact, the
tag of Chief Ministership has been forced upon me.
When the boat of Kashmir was caught in turbulent
waters, the leaders felt that only my personality could save the situation from
getting out of hand. They called me to take the reins of the Government in a
delicate situation. I thought it improper to keep aloof and just watch the
show.
Fortunately, the situation is much better as
compared to the one in 1975. When matters improve further I will step down from
power. My wish is that the younger generation comes forward during my lifetime.
Can the new generation provide the leadership
after you have left?
Well, during my life-time the new generation should
come forward. I will be there to guide them.
Would you like your son Farooq Abdullah to
replace you later?
No. You should not talk like that. We have fought
against monarchy and kings. Here the people’s choice is supreme. It is for them
to decide who should head their Government.
Jamiat-e-Tulba has been raising the issue of
“Islamic Revolution” and does not consider it imperative to be loyal to India.
What have you to say about this organisation?
This organisation is being blown out of proportion
by media people. I have not even seen that boy who has been raising the slogan
of “Islamic Revolution”. You come yourself and see how many people know him.
You do not give much importance to this
organisation! But from yesterday’s news report in Statesman about the arrest
of its members, it appears that you consider this organisation a danger.
This report is absolutely baseless. We do not
consider this organisation as a danger to us. It appears that somebody else is
pulling the strings secretly. In fact, the media have unnecessarily created a
great deal of commotion about it.
But this organisation does not consider it
necessary to remain loyal to India. Isn’t this a serious matter?
Many groups say like that. Even Naxalites say this.
In Assam, people have been talking in similar vein. India is big; a few ripples
here or there do not quite matter. Such things should be ignored. In fact, in
Kashmir there are lots of people who have been deprived of power. They want to
create instability and disturbances. They wish to fish in troubled wafers.
These people are using the newspapers for their selfish ends. See, for
instance, the President of Jamiat-e-Tulba said in his press conference that
“Sheikh Abdullah should bless our movement,” and the newspaper published it:
“Sheikh Abdullah has blessed our movement.”
There have been malicious attempts to link me with
Jamiat-e-Tulba. This is to create rift between me and New Delhi. In fact the
same things are being repeated which took place in 1953. Then a similar kind of
situation was created which caused my arrest. I was India’s hero but was
treated as a traitor.
Do you fear arrest now?
Definitely, I fear arrest any time. Whatever is
happening now had happened during 1953. It was said that I had been trying to
hatch a conspiracy against India; that I was going to declare Kashmir as an
independent country on the Id day; that the American army was going to arrive
at Kashmir—the same kind of propaganda is going on now.
And when such a situation has to be created,
newsmen like Karanjia (of Blitz) and O.K. Ganju (of Statesman) are called and
promoted to write against me. Ganju writes all fabricated stuff —rather, he
gets it written by somebody else. He himself cannot even write two straight
sentences. These newsmen are creating unnecessary propaganda against me. They
are attempting to link my speech of 13th July with “Islamic Revolution.” Their
conclusions are far-fetched.
The riots which took place in Srinagar are again
said to have been instigated by my speech. The people forget that such kind of
disturbances often take place.
Where there are accidents on the roads, and when
somebody dies, people gather. Something like that happened here too.
Unfortunately the truck which killed belonged to the army. The driver was
arrested by the police. And the soldiers of the unit to which the truck
belonged came with lathis and hockey sticks. They beat up people and damaged
whatever came in their way. The army was involved in this affair so the
situation was quite delicate. Despite that, we brought it under control within
two days. Can they (Central leaders) do it? Now, instead of feeling grateful to
us for having handled the situation well, they are using the same against us.
To malign our Government it is being said that this
was a communal riot, when it was not. You kill our people like birds and not
even expect them to get provoked?
Don’t the people of Kashmir trust the army
and consider it as their protector?
How can people consider an army as their protector,
which treats them like cattle? In the incident at Srinagar the entire army was
not involved, but only one unit. But if one unit of the army does something
wrong, it discredits the entire army. It is quite natural that people show
their anger against the entire armed force.
Under what condition were you made the Chief
Minister in 1975? What was the reason which led the Congress to dissolve its
own Government in the State (of Mir Qasim) and install you as the Chief
Minister?
The condition in the country then was quite bad.
When the Congress Party was finding it difficult to run Governments in other
States, Kashmir stood out with its peculiar problems. When they could not
control it, they said: “Here, it’s for you. It is getting out of our control.”
Then, Mrs Gandhi and I had certain talks and agreements.
Now, how come your relation with the Congress
got strained?
They have not got strained. Actually, the freedom
movement here was led by the National Conference. The situations which
developed after 1947 were again dealt with by us alone. We had links with the
Congress but we were never a part of it. Now the Congress Party wants to run
the State. How is it possible? I have told Congressmen that when they could
not bring Muslims to the fore in the rest of the country, how could they do it
in Kashmir? When they could not become popular with Muslims elsewhere, how could
they expect to gain popularity here? Here, people hardly know of the Congress.
Yes, we have known Congress here in 1953 when they
fired bullets at us.
Why do you want to keep the National
Conference confined to Kashmir?
The National Conference was formed to tackle the
problems of the State and not of the entire country. Kashmir has its own
special problems. Our Constitution has a federal structure. There are separate
units with their own special problems. Two States can have the same problem
also. For instance, the disputes relating to area and rivers — as between
Maharashtra and Gujarat. But most of the problems are provincial which have to
be tackled on the State-level only. So you see, we have a lot to do in Kashmir
itself. How can we talk of the entire country?
Many times you got an opportunity to lead
Indian Muslims but you never took up the task. Why?
Muslims should lead themselves. They should
organise themselves on the State-level. For instance, the Muslims of Uttar
Pradesh should organise themselves and then work in collaboration with any
reasonable party.
In 1973 it seemed that you would lead Indian
Muslims when you actively participated in the activities of Muslim
Majilis-e-Mushavarat and Muslim Personal Law Board. But later you retraced your
steps, why?
The regional parties may find a common platform to
discuss national problems. We can come together like that. After having found
answers to national problems, they can formulate a common policy. For that
purpose all can meet on the platform of mushavarat.
But nobody lets mushavarat to continue. The Muslim
League claimed the exclusive right to lead the Muslims of the country. And thus
the talk of having a common platform to discuss national problems came to
naught.
Today there is a crisis of leadership at the
Centre. Except for Mrs Gandhi in the ruling Congress, there is nobody who has
the stature to provide leadership at the national level. Thus in order to find
a suitable replacement, Rajiv Gandhi is being forcibly dragged into politics.
At this juncture would you like to play an active role in the politics at
the national level?
I feel that the role I am playing now is the right
one for me. The time is not ripe yet for a leader of a minority community to
emerge on the national scene. In other countries it is possible—as it happened
in England. There, a Jew became the Prime Minister and nobody objected to that.
It was possible there because the people there are quite advanced in their
outlook. However, around 200 years back the situation there was even worse than
the one in our country today. In our country, this kind of thing cannot be
contemplated, yet.
Is it true that in 1979 President Sanjeeva
Reddy wanted you to lead a National Government at the Centre?
Yes, the President was contemplating the idea of
bringing everybody together to pull the country out of the crisis. He even had
a talk with me. But still I feel that my taking over as the Prime Minister
would not have been proper.
Your close associates like Bakshi Ghulam
Mohammad, Ghulam Mohammad Sadiq and Mirza Afzal Beg left you. Is that why you
have stopped relying on your associates?
In life, experience makes you become careful. I had
thought that as my heart is clear, others too had clear hearts. I considered it
downright immoral to have one’s associates dogged by the CID. I have realised
that such an attitude does not pay.
Is it true that during your Pakistan visit
you had proposed to Marshal Ayub Khan that India and Pakistan should have a
common defence?
At that time my main purpose was to bring India and
Pakistan across the table. Thus to make Field Marshal Ayub Khan agree to that,
I had visited Pakistan.
Ayub asked me, “How will we solve the problems?” I
said that in India and Pakistan all kinds of solutions have been put forth. We
can pick up those one after another and whichever appear suitable can be
discussed at length. And if we can solve certain outstanding problems in this
manner it is fine —and even if we cannot, at least certain misunderstandings
could be removed.
I made some headway in this direction. Ayub even
agreed to come to India. But, that was not to be. When I was in Pakistan,
Pandit Nehru passed away. The person whom he had to talk to was no more. I came
back.
You did not renew your efforts?
How could I? As I came back to India I was
arrested. And when I came out of jail, things had changed.
Do you think that “Kashmir- problem,” for
which you have struggled for years, has been solved?
We know that the “Simla- Agreement” has settled
that dispute.
Are you satisfied with the “Simla Agreement”?
The two countries have entered into this agreement.
And they are satisfied. Who is bothered about our satisfaction?
Last year you got the “Anti- Defection Bill”
passed. What has been the outcome of it?
The outcome has been quite good. We have not had
any problem about it. Now certain people are trying to challenge it in the
Supreme Court. Let us see what happens. But, I feel that to maintain morality
in politics, it is a must.
What kind of differences have you had with
Mian Bashir, who is trying to challenge this bill in the Supreme Court and who
has defected from National Conference to Congress (I)?
The only complaint he had was that he was not made
a Cabinet Minister.
Recently you had gone to New Delhi and Mrs
Gandhi promised you that your Government would not be toppled. Do you trust her
word?
(Laughs heartily) There is a couplet by Mirza
Ghalib…. (tries to remember but cannot. In fact, he wanted to quote:“Tere
vade par jiye hum to ye jaan, jhut jana. Ki Khushi se mar na Jate, agar aitebar
hota. Ye na thi hamari kismet ki visaie yar hota…” (There is no truth in
your promise. I would have died with happiness had I relied on it. It was not
my luck to have had a meeting with you…)
On what basis have you become friends with
Bhartiya Janata Party? You once considered Jan Sangh as an enemy of Muslims.
I do not have enmity with anybody. In politics we
look for mutual benefit. We do not abuse anybody. Yes, they belong to Jan
Sangh. But the original ideology which they professed has undergone a change.
We had a quarrel with that ideology.
Would you like to lead a movement which might
aim at the unification of India and Pakistan—as they were before the Partition?
What can you do in this regard now? Yes, the
Partition originally was a wrong step, but it is not possible for the two to
come together again—as they were before Independence. They can be brought
together on the emotional plane now. We can bring the two countries together
the way America and Canada have come closer. They have common trade and other
relations and there is scarcely any tension between them. When those two
neighbours can live together cordially, why can’t Pakistan and India? America
and Canada do not have such strong ties as we have. We have blood relations
with the Pakistanis.
What difference can you point out between the
style of functioning of Pandit Nehru and that of Mrs Gandhi?
Nehru was on one level and Mrs Gandhi is on the
other. There is a lot of difference between the two. There are however a few
similarities too. But, that is quite natural—Mrs Gandhi is, after all, Nehru’s
daughter.
In your view which of these countries have
proved better than others for the Muslims —India, Pakistan and Bangladesh?
Neither of three. Now, it depends on Muslims how
they live. If in India you live properly—with amity and reason, then this
country can prove congenial. And if you take the wrong path then, naturally, it
would adversely affect you. It is the same for Muslims in Pakistan and
Bangladesh.
It is alleged that nowadays you are usually
more inclined to compromise and have lost that image of ‘Lion of Kashmir’.
What has led us to compromise? What has been the
cause of dispute? From the very beginning we have extended a friendly hand
towards India. It didn’t start yesterday. In 1931, we were trying for that when
Pakistan did not even exist. The socio-economic programme we called “New
Kashmir” had been our goal which we are still striving to achieve. No change
has occurred on that front.
How far do you consider Shahi Imam Abdullah
Bukhari to be the leader of Muslims?
(Laughs heartily) Only to the extent he himself is
a Muslim.
How far do you think his demand for
reservations for Muslims in Army, Parliament and State Assemblies is justified?
He is Imam. I have attended many prayers conducted
by him. In that respect he is venerable. He wishes well for Muslims. Religion,
and not politics, has been his field. Now he has got stuck in politics—he sways
from one point to the other. What can I now say about him?
Are you satisfied with the representation
Kashmir has got in the army?
A: I am not at all satisfied. Since 1931, this has
been our demand that Kashmiri Muslims, not only they but all Kashmiris, should
be given a fair representation in the army. This has always been our demand
that Kashmiris should be given fair representation in jobs at the Centre also.
Is it true that in Kashmir you give priority
to Muslims in the matters of allotment of jobs?
Yes. It is true. And this policy will continue. It
is also legally justified and Muslims have a right to it. As long as Muslims
remain backward in education and economically this will have to continue. After
that, this would definitely be dropped.
The bill concerning the minority character of
Aligarh Muslim University is being moved by the Indian Government. What is your
reaction to this?
It has been put in the cold storage. Nobody is
talking about it now. What can I say about it?
What influence does Maharaja Hari Singh’s
family wield in the State now?
They hardly have any influence. They do not have
anything in their hand. They have some property—after all they were rulers. For
hundred years they ruled. They have a son—Dr Karar Singh. He is young and
educated. He has money. He wants power and tries for it. But his field is India
and not Kashmir. He hardly has any influence here.
Don’t you feel that because of the custom of
purdah women have remained backward? Do you support the idea of giving freedom
to women?
There is a limit to everything. Even women’s
freedom should have its bounds.
In Islam the relationship between man and woman has
a very healthy basis. Man has been asked to lower his eyes if his eye catches a
woman. The woman has also been asked to do the same if she sees a man. And then
woman has been asked to cover her erogenous parts. But she has not been asked
to cover her face and feet completely.
Now, you look at Arab history. Women were not
imprisoned in the houses. They used to go to work at the battle fields—would
encourage soldiers, serve them with water, put balm on their wounds etc. Even
Hazrat Aisha Sidiqa (Prophet Mohammad’s youngest wife) led a group of women in
the battle field. The Muslim woman has never been asked to stay at home.
But there should be a limit to freedom. The kind of
freedom you see in Europe has been threatening woman’s existence. The women in
Europe feel that freedom lies in showing your body. They have one after another
almost discarded all their clothes. This is an extreme of freedom and this is
wrong.
The other extreme is that you are wearing a burqa
(veil) which does not even permit air inside. This is also wrong.
Apart from politics what are your hobbies?
A: Now, there is only politics. There is scarcely
any time for any hobby. I have been interested in flowers and gardening; I have
also been interested in reading. But my life has been such a busy one that I
scarcely get any time to pursue any hobby. I did a little bit of reading in
jail.
After independence, the Indian Government has
adopted the policy of nationalisation of various industries. What do you feel
about this so called socialism and nationalization?
Here in Kashmir we do not have much of industry.
But on the basis of whatever personal experience I have had in this regard, I
can say that nationalisation has done more harm than good to the country. We
have not done well in the public sector.
In the public sector the employees are mainly
concerned about their own benefit. They are not bothered about the loss or
profit of the company. While in the private sector this kind of thing does not
happen. Here the employees and the employers know that in the well-being of the
company is their benefit and progress. We should give more encouragement to
private sector.
Because of our policy not to encourage the private
sector, we have brought curbs on the big business houses. What happens is that
these big houses invest abroad —they put money in industry in Indonesia and
Malaysia. As a result the people in these countries are getting employment.
While the unemployment in India has been increasing.
If we allow these people to invest in our country,
our countrymen too would get jobs and production will also increase. But
because of the wrong policies of the Government, this is not happening.
And the public sector is in a mess. They are always
showing losses to the tune of millions. I wonder if any public sector is
showing profit. You can see their reports.
Would you like your Tourism Department to be
run as a private enterprise?
There is nothing in it to be handed over to private
enterprise. In fact a large part of tourism industry in the State is being
controlled by the private enterprise—hotels, houseboats and restaurants etc.
However, if anybody in the private sector wishes to
develop certain tourist spots here, he is welcome. He should come and discuss
his project with us. We do not have any affinity with the public sector. We
want the nation to prosper—whichever sector may do that.
END
[Courtesy:
Kashmir Ink December 5, 2015 (Greater Kashmir)]
